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Episode #14: Marty Jacumin

Episode #14: Marty Jacumin

Breakthrough ideas with Marty:

  • How can a church effectively reach all five of the generations alive today?
  • Wake Forest University is not in Wake Forest, North Carolina, and other learning.
  • Young leaders leaving seminary have a far greater chance to end up in a multigenerational traditional church.
  • Leading a multigenerational church may just be the most exasperating, frustrating thing you will love with all your heart. It is for this pastor.
  • The older generation can, and should provide as much energy as they provide wisdom in your church.
  • Learn to lead your ideal church right where you are… don’t just hunt for it somewhere else.
  • The vast majority of churches are less than 200 in attendance… and most new pastors will step into a small church with an older generation.
  • If you want all generations to participate in the vision, cast a vision from which every generation can lead.
  • If we can get younger leaders and older leaders working together, it shows every generation the value of the other.
  • Love and shepherd people, don’t just try to change them.
  • When your people know you love them and that you want to shepherd them, they will respond to your leadership and the changes you know need to happen.
  • People will stand in the rain to watch their kids sing.
  • What could happen if you took your traditional church events out into the community?
  • Look at what you’re already doing and cast a vision to the church to leverage events to reach the community.
  • If your goal is to make people happy, sell ice cream. Not everybody wants to reach people; some will just want their preference in church.
  • Living into your unique personality and calling brings great freedom. Living without that clarity feels like a prison where someone else holds the key.
  • We don’t make hard decisions to hurt people, but sometimes we make hard decisions that hurt people.
  • Embracing the beauty of every generation, not just the difficulty in leading every generation, brings new life into a church.
  • Lead your people to understand that they wake up on the mission field everyday… they don’t have take trips overseas to be on the mission.
  • How can your church be more strategic through partnerships in reaching the community right around you?
  • Don’t try to become the leader you think people think you should be, become the leader you God has created and is calling you to be.
  • What are the challenges, as well as the benefits, of succeeding a long-tenured pastor who wants to stick around the church?
  • Staying until you are old enough to retire is not a vision for your church… it is a vacuum that often sucks much of the life out of the church.
  • Spend time with your spouse every day. Listen to what they are telling you about what they see in your leadership.
  • Get the leadership input from those who are closest to you, because they know you best and love you the most.
  • Just because someone questions what you are doing, it does not mean they are opposed to you or what you are doing.
  • Questions do not mark an adversary; they often mark an advocate who needs more information than you are giving.
  • Shepherd your family as much as you shepherd your church.

Breakthrough resources in this episode:

Bay Leaf Church

Collaboration Cube

Brothers, We Are Not Professionals by John Piper

Dangerous Calling by Paul David Tripp

Dr. Marty Jacumin was born and raised in the Foothills of North Carolina. He married his beautiful wife, Lori, in 1991 and they have three children. Marty is a graduate of NC State University and Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he also serves as an adjunctive preaching professor. Marty has served Southern Baptists as a trustee at Southeastern Seminary and North Carolina Baptists on the State Board of Directors. Marty also was privileged to be the President of the North Carolina Baptist State Convention Pastors’ Conference in 2010. He has a great conviction and passion for preaching God’s Word. Marty’s desire to see the lost come to faith in Christ and to see believers discipled is evident in his writing, his preaching, and his everyday life.


Episode #13: Kelly Kannwischer

Episode #13: Kelly Kannwischer

Breakthrough ideas with Kelly:

  • Building a strong leadership culture brings out the best in all of your leaders.
  • Churches are generally great at helping people live out their general calling, but it takes high intentionally to grow people within their special calling.
  • What is God’s calling for you, in this life stage, at your location, with your circumstances and your specific gifts and talents?
  • There are only two questions a church should ask: What is our process for making disciples? Is it working?
  • How does your church help every member understand and live out their unique identity?
  • There is a distinction between a person’s calling and their vocation.
  • The church can unintentionally place volunteers into roles that affect the joy of living in their calling
  • Churches have an opportunity to shift the leadership culture from “What do we want from people?” to identifying and releasing people to live into their call.
  • How can the church be viewed as a place where strength, skill, and expertise help it become a disciple-making training ground for everyday life?
  • The church can and should be the training ground for gospel-centered life design.
  • What if your church had the reputation of developing called people to such a degree that marketplace leaders look there first for new employers?
  • What is gospel-centered life design? What does that look like in the church?
  • If we are going to ask questions about our identity, we must ask them in the context of our creator and His unique design for us.
  • Our calling is revealed over a lifetime when we see God’s shaping of our life as discipleship.
  • Learning how to listen as leaders is often more important than learning how to speak.
  • You can make better decisions by asking questions out of security and peace.
  • Questions from your other leaders are not necessarily those people questioning you.
  • Strength and vulnerability are twin ideas, not opposites.
  • Productivity looks different in different seasons of life. Sometimes just getting the chores done is the highest form of accomplishment.
  • Success should be measured less in how much money you make and more in how you live out your unique life call.
  • When people get an insight into the power of their call and begin to live in it, they have an even greater idea into the calling of the church.
  • How can personal clarity within your congregation engage the organizational clarity of your church?
  • When the people receive the gift of calling, it makes it easier to obtain and engage the leadership pipeline of the church.
  • Take the long view, there should be a sense of urgency in your work, but urgency shouldn’t lead to panic in the system.
  • God wants you to be a whole healthy person, as much as He wants you to be a productive, intentional leader.

Breakthrough resources in this episode:

Peachtree Church Atlanta

Vanguard University


Link to Younique Preview

Girl Meets God by Lauren Winner

Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard

Kelly Kannwischer has spent her vocational life as a not-for-profit executive, consultant, and development professional. Before becoming the CEO of Younique, Kelly founded OptUp Consulting, served THINK Together as the Chief Engagement Officer, and led Vanguard University as a Vice President and President of the Vanguard University Foundation. Kelly graduated from the University of Virginia and earned her Masters degree from Princeton Theological Seminary. She is married to Rev. Dr. Richard Kannwischer and is the proud mother of two teenage girls.

Episode #12: Danny Franks

Episode #12: Danny Franks

Breakthrough ideas with Danny:

  • When God says “I am doing something…” words begin to create worlds.
  • Learn why nobody wants to give their life away to show up and help somebody find a parking space.
  • Why serving on a hospitality team is a lot of fun for about three weeks but becomes a lousy hobby if there is no substance.
  • If all we are calling people to do is show up to check off a box, they will only be excited for a short time. Train for this instead.
  • How vital is a welcoming ministry in a church where there is so much emphasis on the gospel and missions?
  • Is a First Impressions ministry essential? Answering this question with the Gospel is critical, here’s why.
  • Could it be that there roles in the church that we are presenting as family chores? Serving should never feel like taking out the garbage.
  • There are plenty of opportunities to offend people and make them uncomfortable when you see with first-time guest eyes.
  • We can do everything possible to make 60-75 minutes inside the worship service flawless, but if we are not thinking through what somebody sees first, it may not matter.
  • Do we need to ask – what do they see first?
  • Make sure that the messages from the stage hold up to the messages on the sidewalk.
  • The gospel is offensive but nothing else should be, especially your welcome.
  • Guests far from God may disagree with points of your sermon, but they cannot argue with the love of your people.
  • There are all kinds of offenses on a Sunday that we can fix… the gospel is one offense we shouldn’t try to fix.
  • If we make it feel like we love people, we planned for them, and we cannot wait for them to come back, people hostile to the gospel will eventually take hold.
  • Helping people understand the purpose behind needed changes is critical to keeping volunteer hearts engaged.
  • The why behind The Summit’s hospitality begins and ends with the gospel.
  • The big win of the weekend is that everyone hears the gospel communicated.
  • The Summit First Impressions Plumbline: The gospel is offensive, nothing else should be
  • The Summit First Impressions Plumbline: The why is more important than the what.
  • The Summit First Impressions Plumbline: Everything speaks.
  • The Summit First Impressions Plumbline: The first visit should set up the second visit
  • The Summit First Impressions Plumbline: Make it personal – every weekend is someone’s first weekend, meet people where they are
  • The why has to be more caught than taught. People should understand what matters most beyond just hearing words at a training meeting.
  • Leaders must be present and in conversation to ensure that culture is stewarded well from campus to campus.
  • Stories are the most significant indicator of cultural health.
  • Asking guests about their experience is a way to hear from guests and listen for systemic issues in your hospitality experience.
  • The first time guest experience is a health indicator for the entire church.
  • Stats don’t grab people’s hearts the way stories do… tell stories to motivate and to cultivate the results you want to see.
  • Gospel discipleship in every ministry means that people can move from parking cars to planting churches.
  • The majority of guest services conversations are transactional, but are your people available to connect beyond the welcome and into the relational?
  • The bare minimum number of volunteers result in the bare minimum number of gospel experiences.
  • You always need more volunteers – more people engaged in the mission creates more opportunities to engage people.
  • There has to be a passion for the guest experience… your volunteers need to see welcoming people as more than just family chores.
  • Nobody dreams of being a guest services pastor, but the reality is that Biblical hospitality is a critical component of following Jesus.
  • Guest Services are a biblical virtue expressed on an organizational level.
  • Essential Qualities of a Great Hospitality Leader: People person, Attention to detail, Dreamer not afraid to take measured risks
  • We don’t always need to learn something new; we need to revisit the truth over and over again.
  • Leaders sharpen their tools by reading – and not just leadership books.
  • You can engineer EPIC moments to engage First Time Guests.
  • Relax… let go of the perfect plan and the ideal event. Outside of salvation, there are very few things in ministry that are as life and death as we think they are.
  • We can sacrifice people on the altar of our idol the plan.
  • We are not here for the plans we are here for the people.

Breakthrough resources in this episode:

The Summit Church RDU

People Are The Mission by Danny Franks

Start with Why by Simon Sinek

A Praying Life by Paul Miller

Switch by Chip & Dan Heath

The Power of Moments by Chip & Dan Heath

Danny Franks is the Pastor of Guest Services at the Summit Church in Durham, North Carolina, where he’s served since 2003. In that role, he oversees guest services for ten campuses across the Triangle region of North Carolina, reaching over 11,000 people each weekend. He’s married to Merriem (out of his league), dad to three boys (cooler than he was at their age), and protector of one princess (cute as a button). Danny’s passion for the church is to help outsiders become insiders, and challenging insiders to reach outsiders. He is the author of People Are the Mission: How Churches Can Welcome Guests Without Compromising the Gospel, which released in March 2018. He’s a regular blogger at and a regular twit @LetMeBeFranks.

Episode #11: Cal Rychener

Episode #11: Cal Rychener

Breakthrough ideas with Cal:

  • What does church planting look like 30 years in?
  • How does a church move from program driven to presence driven after years of ministry success?
  • It’s possible to go deep with your weekend sermons and still be responsive to those who are not in a relationship with Christ.
  • If someone is visiting your church these days, they are looking for something meaningful, do not hold back on the presence of the Lord in worship.
  • Pastors, you can teach for maturity and still talk toward salvation.
  • Listen to your desert – when the desert is happening in your heart, the Lord wants to teach you there.
  • You can be a balanced church in the Word and the Spirit.
  • It is possible to be charismatic without being weird.
  • Never be without a swing coach, you need somebody who knows what you don’t and sees what you can’t.
  • We are the only church in the world that has our mission statement, and that is how it should be.
  • Your mission should roll off your tongue with excitement and speak life in every word.
  • What does it look like when a church truly believes Jesus came to break the chains that are still holding you?
  • Is there life in every word and passion in every syllable when you speak the mission?
  • Leadership gets tough when you are not clear on the mission that God has called you to.
  • Why is it important to have your team in the room when developing the vision, isn’t it easier to do it on your own?
  • What does visionary collaboration look like?
  • Collaboration builds a team that will fight for your values and your culture, not just own it because they are told to or paid to.
  • We shouldn’t be afraid of surfacing the misalignment on the team.
  • Don’t be afraid to find out if you have someone on the team who doesn’t share the vision.
  • What does it mean to cast your faith forward and your fear backward?
  • In staff transitions or seasons of change, the tendency is to cast our fear forward instead of casting our faith forward.
  • Your fears can keep you stuck.
  • Making the church planting shift – here’s one pastor who would instead look back at 20 pastors he raised than 20 locations that lower a screen.
  • What is the difference between a church planter and a campus pastor?
  • What happens when the multisite model becomes an obstacle to pastoring in the local context?
  • What might a hybrid model of church planting and multisite campusing look like?
  • Be who you are not who someone else is. Do not deny who God has called you to be.
  • Spend time with the Lord in personal practice, not pastoral theory.
  • If you were not a pastor, would you still live as you live?
  • Refuse to sacrifice your family to lead your church.
  • Are you the same person at home than you are on the stage?
  • Live out of your heart what God has called you to live and your legacy will take care of itself.

Breakthrough resources in this episode: 

Northwoods Community Church

God Dreams by Will Mancini

All Hail the Power of Jesus Name

The Hour That Changes the World by Dick Eastman

Originally from Archbold, Ohio, Pastor Cal Rychener graduated from Fort Wayne Bible College and went on to earn a Masters of Divinity degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. In addition to his love for the local church, Cal has two other great passions. First and foremost are his wife Susan and their family: Kathryn, Andy, Avery, Madilyn and Blake Rogers; Jonathon, Michaela, Arianna and Joanna Rychener; Victoria and Kody Pinson; and Nathan Rychener. Running a distant second is his love for the Green Bay Packers, for whom he has been a guest chaplain. He has been the senior pastor of Northwoods Community Church since its beginning in 1990. Cal is also the author of the books Living at a Higher Level of Faith and God Can.

Episode #10: Chris Driver

Episode #10: Chris Driver

Breakthrough ideas with Chris:

  • The ethos of six-man football reflects the grit and resilience of small-town life on the west Texas plains. It also inspired this church’s vision.
  • Who will reach the small town? Who will take the gospel to those places that were once the center of life in our rural communities?
  • This church of 80 has plans to plant 100 churches, and God is providing in exciting every resource they need. How was your weekend?
  • Three church planting breakthroughs from the south plains of west Texas.
  • What does church planting look like in the small towns of west Texas? Learn about Fifth Street Baptist’s disciple-making mission points.
  • What does authentic and effective discipleship look like in a small town?
  • Small town residents understand living in community – you don’t have to teach that. But they desperately need to experience Christ-centered community.
  • You don’t have to teach community and caring for each other in the small town, you just need to connect it to Gospel purpose.
  • God delights in using small things in big ways. Here is an example from the southern plains of west Texas.
  • How do we let our people truly invest in each other’s lives? Community is bigger than just having Sunday school or small groups.
  • What happens when a church has a lot of history but not a lot of legacy?
  • Years spent in existence as a church do not automatically amount to multiplication influence in the community by the church. Hear the story of one established church leaving a legacy.
  • This church believes that reaching 10 people in 100 small towns is the way that a church of 80 can reach 1000 people each week.
  • Relationships overcome geography when discipleship looks like this.
  • What happens when you really believe that discipleship is for every believer not just the spiritually elite?
  • Claim ownership of your own discipleship first. Stop waiting for someone to disciple you and start being a disciple maker.
  • Effectiveness in the small town means that every man woman and child can realistically hear the gospel and have a chance to respond. Here is one way.
  • A church of 80 attendees has planted five churches in the last 18 months. How is your multiplication strategy working?
  • Smaller is easier to reproduce. There is something to being a simple church in simple places with simple people sharing a simple message.
  • Is your operational vision bigger than just more people in weekly worship? It should be.
  • You can sometimes make people do what you want them to do, but vision ownership like this goes beyond getting what you want to be done.
  • What happens when a church starts the multiplication process as soon as they start meeting. What does it mean to be “born pregnant” as a church?
  • God has not forgotten the small town. He has a plan and a purpose to do big ministry in small places.
  • Get out of the office. You cannot influence people you’re not in contact with.
  • Busyness in the office does not equate to effective ministry. Ministry “along the way” reflects the way of Jesus.
  • Irresponsible vision reflects an indescribable God. Be faithful with what He has given you and leave the results to Him.

Breakthrough resources in this episode: 

Fifth Street Baptist Church

Exponential Conference

God Dreams by Will Mancini

Download the whole Fifth Street story: Big Vision for Small Places

Real Life Discipleship by Jim Putman

Chris Driver is the Senior Pastor of Fifth Street Baptist Church in Levelland, Texas. Chris enjoys coaching youth sports and is passionate about the sport of six-man football.

Episode #9: Chris Freeland

Episode #9: Chris Freeland

Breakthrough ideas with Chris:

  • What if we could get everyone in here out there, instead of trying to get everyone out there in here?
  • How do we equip and deploy people to really love their neighbors every day of the week?
  • It is hard to love your neighbor when you don’t know your neighbor.
  • Don’t just introduce one idea on one Sunday – bringing people back to the idea multiple times demonstrates repeated intentionality.
  • Asking the same questions every week is not repetitive, it is intentional. Until you’re tired of saying it, they have likely not heard it.
  • When the pastor lives the vision first, redemptive movement becomes infectious and vision gets accomplished.
  • Cultivate vision at the highest leadership level among your staff and key volunteers.
  • Learn to celebrate the single step, not just the overall accomplishment.
  • Win every week by giving micro steps for everyone to take.
  • Permission to make the necessary changes to a church requires pointing to the DNA and what is not changing.
  • Executive Pastor Learning: don’t let your pastor get surprised by something you already knew about.
  • Executive Pastor Learning: know what needs to be on your Senior Pastor’s radar and when bad news needs to be delivered.
  • Senior Pastors and Executive Pastors should connect regularly in both organic and structured moments in which you can work through conflicts or divided perspectives.
  • How does the Senior Pastor empower leaders and give them the room to lead?
  • Vision is so critical to the church, that even the church name should be evaluated.
  • When making major changes: go slow, go pray, go read and go deep.
  • Connect stories to vision to declare God’s work among the people.
  • Cascading communication is critical in the success of any major congregational change.
  • Bring people to pray first then bring them to the change.
  • Set up your people to participate in leading the change, not just experiencing the change.
  • Pray and process, but be humble enough to know that you may not have seen everything.
  • What you think about the brand is what you think about the character of the organization.

Breakthrough resources from this episode:

Doxology Bible Church

The Art of Neighboring

BLESS by Dave Ferguson 

The Advantage – Patrick Lencioni

Leading from the Second Chair 

Leadership and Self-Deception

While Shepherds Watched their Flocks

Hero Maker – Dave Ferguson

Chris Freeland has been the Lead Pastor at Doxology Bible Church in Fort Worth, TX since 2011. Originally from Columbia, MO, Chris has a music degree from Oklahoma State University and ThM and Doctorate of Ministry degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary. He is married to Kari and they have three young children.

Episode #8: Phil EuBank

Episode #8: Phil EuBank

Breakthrough ideas with Phil: 

  • Reaching the lost requires removing every possible barrier of understanding – even some things you love.
  • It’s time to let go of some of these weird practices of the church that have nothing to do with Jesus.
  • Are your worship services evangelistically understandable? If you are not sure, they probably are not.
  • “Thank you for making me not feel stupid.” How to be a church where people can seek God and walk back to him.
  • Inspiring people to trade church the way we want it to become a place where God is moving is a critical job of pastoral leadership.
  • Making it possible to follow Jesus with a few non-essential *(stylistic, personal preference-driven) barriers as possible.
  • Talk about where God is calling you to go and don’t get tired of talking about it. Don’t get bored or give up… persistence toward God’s better future is critical.
  • Find the common ground of a church on mission and filter needed changes through a better future that God has ahead.
  • A unifying direction must be more than a catchphrase or neat sentence but brings a thread of accountability and direction to every part of the organization.
  • Everybody says they want vision but what they don’t realize they mean is that they want their own vision. There is no way to satisfy every expectation only to go where God wants us to go.
  • It’s easy in ministry to get consumed by the activity and lose track of Gods productivity in the lives of people.
  • When there are no stories, either we are not paying attention or what we are doing is not actually working.
  • Without purpose and meaning toward life change – church becomes a hobby and a terrible one at that.
  • When team members are free to share good ideas and share new approaches, they are able to take greater and greater ownership.
  • Time rarely solves the problems on their own… next steps matter more than a statement.
  • Separate the urgent from the important. Not everything that is happing now is important and not everything that is important is happening now.
  • When everything seems urgent, your team cannot easily discern what is actually important.
  • Deciding when you use these essential communication tools can define a clear line between the urgent and the important.

Breakthrough resources from this episode:

God Dreams – Will Mancini

Deep & Wide – Andy Stanley

VOXER – staff communication tool

H3 Leadership – Brad Lomenick

The Problem of God – Mark Clark 

The Reason for God – Tim Keller

Phil EuBank moved to Colorado two and half years ago where he serves as the Lead Pastor of Eastern Hills Community Church. Phil makes sure everyone knows that He has a gorgeous and brilliant wife and 3 really cute kids. He loves seeing people who have given up on God or church unnecessarily coming to a life-changing relationship with Jesus.

Episode #7: Barrett Bowden

Episode #7: Barrett Bowden

Breakthrough ideas with Barrett: 

  • How can a church reach Christians who live in the city, from within the city, not just the suburbs?
  • True fulfillment as a Christ-following leader comes from a deep sense of two key understandings.
  • Why it is important to bring yourself back to your calling as a leader, not someone else’s.
  • It is hard to truly rest if people are constantly in contact, and what to do about it.
  • Every leader needs to know their symptoms of exhaustion and unkempt health.
  • The importance of every small group having direct contact with this person.
  • Marry Biblical Gospel rooted purpose with a vocational dream and people are not just looking for a job after school, they are being sent into a calling.
  • The big problem of never really casting vision beyond week-to-week ministry engagement.
  • How does the horizon storyline work and why is it important?
  • Learn the art of “purposed nothingness” and how this makes room for the Holy Spirit.
  • The one big idea to having a church of deep maturing disciples who are loving caring people reaching the lost.
  • Three things that, together, are the source of life and effectiveness in ministry.

Breakthrough resources from this episode:

Island Community Church

Zeal Without Burnout by Christopher Ash

M’Cheyne Bible Reading Plan

God Dreams by Will Mancini

Dangerous Calling by Paul David Tripp

New Morning Mercies by Paul David Tripp

Barrett Bowden is the pastor of Island Community Church, a young and thriving congregation in downtown Memphis. Barrett has a heart for leading the church to invest in its unique, urban context and to cultivate missional leaders with a heart for the nations. Barrett is married to Michelle, an adolescent pediatrician in the Memphis area, and they have one adorable daughter, Caroline Jane.


Episode #6: Talbot Davis

Episode #6: Talbot Davis

Breakthrough ideas with Talbot: 

  • Twitter is a great place to improve as a wordsmith because it forces clarity of communication.
  • It is possible for social media to make you a better pastor and leader.
  • Making diversity the cause only results in political correctness, so make Jesus the cause and let diversity be the result.
  • Bringing diversity to staff means writing every job description carefully and hiring intentionally.
  • Knowing who you are as a church, and who you are not, brings incredible focus to a church.
  • The consistency of visionary identity from church leadership brings confidence in missional activity from the body.
  • Setting people up for lots of small wins eventually results in large victory in Jesus.
  • Be clear about your expectations for hiring and set up systems of accountability.
  • Normalize the things of the church that used to be remedial: healing prayers, altar calls, and being awake to the Spirit.
  • There is a difference in being a charismatic church and a church with a lot of charismatic people in it.
  • Processes can hinder leadership; sometimes you just need to take risks on people.
  • When it comes to staff hiring and firing, long hellos and short goodbyes are best.
  • Develop your gifts and hire others that make up for your unavoidable shortcomings.
  • Work every day and you will get better at what you do.

Breakthrough resources from this episode: 

Good Shepherd United Methodist Church

The Storm Before the Calm by Talbot Davis

Head Scratchers by Talbot Davis 

Crash Test Dummies by Talbot Davis

Communicating for a Change by Andy Stanley

Talbot Davis is Pastor of Good Shepherd United Methodist Church, a modern congregation in Charlotte, North Carolina. Talbot helps lead a talented group of pastors and support staff. Talbot makes sure everyone knows that he married well, and now has two adult children. A lifetime of playing tennis consistently shapes how he leads and thinks about the world. Talbot has published five books through Abington Press as resources for both life groups and preachers in training.


Episode #5: Eric Geiger

Episode #5: Eric Geiger

Breakthrough ideas with Eric:

  • Leadership transitions will always happen, but what actually makes succession a success?
  • Following God involves holding two conflicting emotions in tension: grieving what has been and anticipating what will be.
  • There will always be unfinished work. The “unconquered territory” reminds us the work is God’s not ours.
  • How can pastors keep their heart connected to the community they are called to reach?
  • In seasons of transition, caring for your family is as important as the mechanics of moving.
  • When it comes to your family don’t try to be perfect… just be ordinary. There is beauty in an ordinary marriage.
  • The demands of ministry will never be satisfied and making approval an idol will end in ruin.
  • People will always be disappointed in some part of your ministry; therefore slow down, care for your family, and play the long game.


Breakthrough resources from this episode:

Love Without Walls  by Laurie Beshore

CSB Bible

The Gospel Project

Insights Team Building Tool 

Designed to Lead by Eric Geiger & Kevin Peck

Simple Church by Eric Geiger & Thom Rainer

How to Ruin Your Life by Eric Geiger 

Spiritual Leadership by Oswald Sanders

The Cross of Christ by John Stott

Auxano’s Leadership Pipeline

E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber

Eric Geiger is the Senior Pastor of Mariners Church in Irvine, California. Before moving to Southern California, Eric served as senior vice-president for LifeWay Christian Services. Eric received his doctorate in leadership and church ministry from Southern Seminary. Eric has authored or co-authored several books including the best selling church leadership book, Simple Church. Eric is married to Kaye, and they have two daughters: Eden and Evie. During his free time, Eric enjoys dating his wife, taking his daughters to the beach, and playing basketball.